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Perspectives from an Old School guy - Champ - 3-31-14 10:20 AM
This is a long post. I truly feel that what the message I'm trying to convey is important, so if you have any free time or want to procrastinate, or even waiting for that PUG to start, please give it a read.
Initially, this was a response to blood's post in my other forum topic: "Moneys dead, we all appreciate you adding another team to the tourny but I feel it should of been as another name in respect for the team. It does sadden me knowing that I will never get to face the original tyrant of the mod at their best but.. I guess thats a good thing for you ;P"
BELIEVE ME when I say I'm not irritated or annoyed at blood, I just happened to use that as a catalyst or platform to say a bit of what I've been meaning to say after playing for 2 weeks. Take it as the perspective of an old schooler who returned after six years of not playing. Also a LOT of you have been grilling me with questions on Steam about a lot of things, so I'll answer a lot here too.
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think Money is actually dead as you say it is. Maybe if you were referring to how the majority of our players don't play anymore, or haven't played since 08' 09', then I do agree; we all ran into various points in our lives that required more attention or priority. I personally retired because my parents at the time couldn't afford either high-speed internet or a better computer, and the lag was actually unbearable. Besides the team's little baby FaTaL, I think the youngest member we have as of now is 20. Basically, we all ran into critical junctures in our lives that began to force us to think of bigger picture necessities, such as what we're going to do to put the food on the table, what passion we'll attempt to pursue in hopes of it translating into a lifelong occupation, and chatting up that cute little boothang who's been eyeing you constantly in class for the past two weeks. Things that we THOUGHT dop was going through when we were in high school (he trolled us all into thinking he had a kid when he was like 16 or something, but thats another story for another time).
But with all that said, Money is far from dead.
Throughout the six or seven years I've been gone, I've grabbed a beer with a couple of the guys on my team, balled some niggas up in real life, constantly emailed and chatted em up, and tried my best to maintain a certain degree of contact with the members of the team that would be better characterized as a brotherhood. Ask any old school [$] that still plays: Gee, dop, iTouch, Hester, etc. They will all vouch for an ELITE, DIE-HARD, TIGHT-KNIT, HILARIOUS, and most importantly, FUN team that was fostered back in the day. The memories we had/have, constantly testing out Whookid's new additions, chilling in the server on late nights just talking about life and noncs related shit, and the ridiculous excitement when the [$] map was madeĊ we spent long and countless nights just jumping in that hot tub and staring at our personalized lockers; it was a thrill that I have to say you had to be there to experience. You guys might just see the locker room and see the same old shit: hot tub, random poster of woman, weird creepy model of the guy in the corner, the porno magazines on the bench hidden away in the back, but each and every one of those small intricacies have individual, purposeful and sentimental reasons for being there. It might sound very cheesy, and I admit it does, but I'm nothing but thankful for all these great times we've spent. These very memories are the very exact reason why I can hit up ANY [$] member and we'll pick up exactly where we last left off, either a couple weeks, months, or years ago. Chances are, if I begin talking to any [$] player, we inevitably go straight down into memory lane and the nostalgia pumps through our veins at a ridiculous level. That bond will forever be there.
A lot of people have been asking why I'm coming back to the tourney, or whether I'm playing or not, and honestly, I wasn't going to. There was no reason for me to. In fact, I had all the reason NOT to. I've had my share of fun, the game has changed ridiculously, I'm incredibly rusty, it was only a week away, my main QB Whookid is off doing boss things in the world, everything. But after a night of talking to Gee and dop, and hitting up all the old [$] members, I just want to play for old times sake. It isn't about doing our [$] name dirty; in fact, its the complete opposite. As long as I have one [$] player willing to play with me, I'm 200% and that stands as a testament to the [$] bond and name. The fact that some of these players, such as iTouch or Hester who haven't played csfb consistently in YEARS is willing to come out and play just for old time's sake is powerful. Knowing all the odds are against them, not a single one of them think in that way: that the [$] name is going to be tarnished in any way. We know what we did back in the day, and we're 100% secure and satisfied with it. FaTaL hit puberty and became an emo teenager, but even he gave it a shot. These are mah NIGGAS. I'd rather lose with these guys, rather than play in a toxic try hard team who doesn't really understand the essence of the game. And thats not saying we're going to lose. [$] always comes to play and win. Watch us dark horse shank you out of your asses.
All in all, big congrats if you got to this point in the post. It is a long post, but I just wanted to clarify all the questions you guys ask me on STEAM as a whole, and make a slight commentary on the current community.
If you guys played with me, you know how light-hearted and relaxed I am. Really, try thinking of when I was negative or toxic to a certain player. With all the hater comments of [$] being overrated and trash, or saying I suck, I just laugh it off because it doesn't really affect me at all. Keep it coming to me, I honestly don't mind, and it just gives me the opportunity to playfully banter back atchu. Because if you think about it, it just doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things, because you weren't even around when I played daily and was in my prime, or when [$] was literally unstoppable. I know what I did, so do the people who played back when I did, and I'm secure about it. But not everyone is like me. The reason old school players might come off as bitter, mean, or nonexistent, is because all this negativity gives them no reason to come back and play. Think about it. You guys weren't even there when we played. You guys were not there during the dark times when even getting a server was tough, and we had to play on shitty ass different gravity Pigskin server. You guys weren't there in Whookid's basement where he poured TONS of allnighters just to get this mod up and running. You guys weren't there when I created [$] and even inceptioned that concept into this mod. All the bhop superstars now, you guys weren't there when mikeisdaf [$] was deemed as the first RB ever for his script less bhop skills back in 2007. You guys weren't there to know what a down ass nigga Jericho/colt was. You guys weren't there for the first ever scrim, which believe me, was a HUGE step in csafm history. The fact that someone like Devin Hester [$], who had the first ever pick six on the first play of the first scrim, can walk in the mod and go by unnoticed just serves to show how much you guys have forgotten or were not there for. Half of you guys, I notice from way back when, when you guys were just beginners or the everyday regular. If the community was as toxic as it is now, half of you guys would not have stuck with this mod. What kind of person are you, if when you are at your best, you step all over people when they are at their lowest? What benefits do you gain out of it? I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I'm just saying, take a step back and check yourself once in a while. Believe me, I'm a HUGE trash talker, but it is always playful banter and never legitimate insults. This unnecessary aggression and negativity discourages the old community from coming back and sharing interesting stories and perspectives, and cuts off a lot of people who this mod truly meant a lot to. They just want to come in and play without being endlessly criticized and insulted by people they don't even know. If someone is new, you should try to ensure that they stick to the mod and help it grow. Give them an opportunity to play and develop and fall in love with this mod just like we all have. You should want to share this gift. If there is anything you took away in this post, it is this paragraph.
There are vocal people in the world, and people who aren't that vocal. It doesn't mean that either of them have any less to say than the other.
Lets be more positive guys, and TEAM [$] LIVESSSSSSS.
- deadpool - 3-31-14 10:44 AM
wow im 17 i feel the love
- Champ - 3-31-14 11:12 AM
LOL never knew how old you were.
Also you playing on True Love </3 MORE LIKE FAKE LOVE.
- Peyton - 3-31-14 12:05 PM
Would modern day LeBron James still be the best NBA player if he was to play in the 1960's? Of course he would! Now, would LeBron James still be the best NBA player if he was to have actually grown up and lived during that time? This cannot be known! LeBron James, like blood (the culprit, are playing in a much more developed game with much more intelligence for the game and far more advanced "technology" as compared to the primal times of Bill Russell or in this case Champ Bailey [$].
As someone who has played since 2007, I have always backed the old school players. You cannot simply compare the modern day player to the old school player. You must first look at the level of impact that the player had during his respective era. You must then compare and contrast that player's resume against those within the same era. By doing this for two different players of two different eras, only then will you have some sort of rational for a discussion.
Now, since I have been playing since the beginning of time, which includes your era and given my status in the community, I have the uttermost credibility when I say this: your evaluation of the modern day players is dead wrong.
I will even argue that our community and the members of each team/clan are much more closer to one another than those of the early era. We have spent more years with each other and have been through a lot more to the point that everyone here knows everyone and then some. While the shit talk is more extreme than that of the early years, is it not true that my feud with WhooKid helped create an competitive rivalry, which in turn made the money players bond into an "elite, die-hard, tight-knit, hilarious" team. I'm sure that while you sat in that hot tub, which FaTaL peed in, starring at your personalized lockers, you all rejoiced about your dislike of GB, especially that Manning guy.
Take a look at all of the old posts. The shit talk between me and WhooKid and even yourself. It's a beautiful thing and it is no different than today - once we're off that strangely cozy fm_stadiumtwo grass, we discuss and debate ideas to improve the game. Look at me and WhooKid's relationship. We never got along as players and my competitive spirit drove him to dislike me, but once he saw my passion for the game and my desire to improve upon it, he befriended and mentored me, which I am grateful for.
What I was to WhooKid, Funtastik and blood are to me - to some degree. These guys will talk shit (mostly blood, but nobody over the years has drove me to lead and work on new ideas as these two have done. I don't like playing with them, but I enjoy playing against them because of their competitive nature - I mean blood has deleted me off Steam Friends at least 12 times.
I'm sure that several years from now when we happen to come across one another we will rejoice about our nights: chasing blaze in the pug server, playing monkey in the middle in the pug server, making the Harlem Shake video, me and Yeti's cold war, spending hours in the server debating CSFL player ratings, talking in ventrilo and team speak while I'm checking out a customer at work, Tj's weed mill, anderson's nose, clarity's delusions, Willy's Drederick Tatum voice, Ribbs' pro-Jesus and pro-discrimination, Tom's choking, Chrispy's monitor, the buzz lightyear, leggie's sick links, Funtastik's bald head, blood's incestry, dops hops, Shadow Slayer, hyoujin's laugh, boo's gender (unknown, and so much more.
I will say this though. The thing that we all need to work on, including myself, is including and mentoring new players so that the future of AFM is secure and that more memories are created.
- blood - 3-31-14 12:13 PM
"because you weren't even around when I played daily and was in my prime, or when [$] was literally unstoppable."
List the amount of players money had total
List the amount of teams you played against
List the amount of respectable teams you played against
"These are mah NIGGAS. I'd rather lose with these guys, rather than play in a toxic try hard team who doesn't really understand the essence of the game."
How does trying to win the game make us not understand the essence of the game. We all talk shit in pugs but when it comes Tournaments we play to win because whats fun about losing?
- hyoujin - 3-31-14 12:22 PM
blood = rasheed "ball don't lie" wallace
peyton = muggsy "5 foot" bogues
hyoujin = lebron "receding hairline" james
- Champ - 3-31-14 12:44 PM
For the sake of my fingers and everyone else's eyes, I'll try my best this time to keep this short.
As much as I'd like to say I have misjudged the community, even you admit that the shit talk is more extreme than the early years. The major beef I have now is that the current shit talk is majorly unwarranted, and it is also discouraging that there is a lot of unnecessary shit talk. It isn't healthy shit talk, like playful bantering or teasing. Trash talking with your friends is fun, but even to that there is a certain limit. There is a certain level of respect. Just because you're the mature one and you share a couple of respectful relationships doesn't necessarily means the majority of the community does. The big phenomenon I've been seeing is people who don't know people at all, and they don't even give them a chance to prove their merit in the mod, and they go OUT of their way to put them down. It is a very cowardly thing for someone who clearly knows he is better and playing this mod for years, to bash quiet regulars who just started to play in the recent months. I look back at our [$] vs. GB rivalry with a lot of mixed emotions. Firstly, it was THE most intense rivalry at the time. You can tell, just talk to any retired [$] member, mention Manning, and they'll shudder in disgust. Same probably goes with GB members vice versa. But that was because we were the dominant teams back in the day, and we scrimmed against each other god knows how many times. It wasn't [$] or GB randomly picking fights or shitting on people for no reason; a lot of it was warranted, and EVEN THEN we never crossed the line. We chose to internalize it and talk about it amongst ourselves. I do think the team rivalries were MUCH more bitter and hated, but with that lacking, I think individuals are MUCH more bitter and hated now. You don't ride and die as a team anymore, it is survival of the fittest now.
The old posts are fun to look at, and at the current period, I do nothing but laugh. Its cute, little high schoolers getting so heated and upset. But it is also taken widely out of context. Those posts are from a time where the forums and site were primarily [$] territory. Hell, there was even a section called "The Champhouse" where I posted random shit. I think 95% of the members were [$], and it was just a personal space for us to talk and vent. Thats why, if my memory serves correctly, you kept trying to make an account and post and we'd get butthurt and delete you multiple times LOL. It is taken out of context, because it seems like it was there as a public forum for everyone to participate and see, but really, the audience for those posts were just [$] and some GB.
I think you've become very attached to this mod, for obvious reasons. You put in immense work to keep it alive, and you stuck through with it ALL THESE YEARS. Obviously CSFB is a huge part of your life, both temporally and mentally. But thats why I also think your opinion of it may be slightly skewed. Like a mother never admitting her child is ugly and coming to its defense at any moment's notice, you are quick to defend your "child." But if you talk to some of the old school people who still play and have attempted to play, there are a lot of different opinions swirling around that I do think you should take into consideration for the betterment of the community as a whole, and not just the specific group of people who are already settled in. For someone like me, taking a big step back and then trying to immerse myself back into the mod, I see so many factors that have changed. It is sorta like when you open that old photo album from five years back, or scroll through your Facebook photos and stumble across prom pictures, where you realize just how much you've changed, changes that you don't necessarily notice when you're in the process of growing up. It is hard to tell something changes when you're with it everyday on the incremental level. Compare getting a haircut, and realizing around 2 months later you need another haircut, versus simply seeing pictures of you right AFTER you got your first haircut, then a picture of you right BEFORE you get the second. My point is, there may be some changes that might have slipped under your radar, and I think it is important enough for me to type all this out and get you to consider. My intention was not to bash the community at all, it was simply to be the platform for a lot of opinions that were voiced to me from various people, and hopefully foster a better environment from here on out.
All in all, my intention of the first post was to respond a bit to various questions about [$], and address an issue that I realize affects a lot of people that were important to this mod. Your goals and my goals are the same: to keep this CSFB mod alive for as long as possible. We always have to look to the future, and I know you constantly look for ways to better the mod and keep it alive. But we all have to realize that the most important thing is not certain additions here and there, it is the community first. Who will carry the flag for the next generation of CSFB? You might still be around, judging by your track record, but who will be the teams and players? Do we want to continue breeding the same players of the same mentality from a small "upper pool?" We have to expand and welcome many perspective and players.
I do miss the old times when we were arch rivals. That competitive spirit/fire/passion is something I wish to pass onto future times.
- Champ - 3-31-14 12:51 PM
@blood
I usually don't respond to comments like that, but since I brought you into all this I might as well right?
It upsets me the questions you're asking, because you completely missed the point of my post. I could rail off and indulge you, but I think that would derail all my intentions.
And believe me, I want to win. Me wanting to rather lose with my team, than win with toxic tryhard people, does not translate at all into me wanting to lose. It just shows the extent that I think certain banter and interactions have become unhealthy. Some people have been missing the point and losing perspective of the bigger picture that A) this is just a game, B) there are people sitting behind the player models, and C) you ain't as hot shit as you make yourself out to be. Also, the "tryhard" comment is moreso from back in 09', where it was almost treated as a disease if you were labeled as a toxic player in PUB servers who got mad at every little thing and mistake. Like when we were setting up the asscatch, some players would rage and be like "OMFG WHATS POINT OF THAT JUS STOP FUCKING AROUND BLAHBLAH OMFG U MISSED THE BALL LIFE IS OVER LBHALBHA." It doesn't necessarily mean you're bad if you try hard to win. It just means take a chill pill and play the game. Shit happens.
Never wanted to knock on you at all blood. As I said, I just used your post as a catalyst to respond. I apologize if you were offended in any way, I have no bad blood (PUN) with you lolol.
- Doughnot - 3-31-14 12:54 PM
Money will be dead when the mod is dead.
Also, champ glad to see you back. I can't wait to see you on the field. I've been eating a lot of fiber lately.
- blood - 3-31-14 1:07 PM
I was not offended... You cant offend me
I see your points about "the essence" of the game.. but my point is if I take the time to do something whether it be this mod or selling a goat I want to make sure It doesn't become a waste of time. every one has the views on the mod some see it as a casual experience I for one am more competitive and if I play I only want to win and that is how I enjoy the mod.
That being said part of my competitive nature is realizing that at one point you were the best team in the mod so of course I will "talk shit". It is the internet, it is a video game. I am the best..